„Putin exploited Carlson as a so-called useful idiot. [ … ] thanks to this interview, he presented the Russian version of history. Poles, Ukrainians and other Europeans mostly know its true course, American audiences may not. This is why they may believe Putin’s manipulations are actually true. Due to the large pre-election polarization in the US, these lies will spread easily,” said Professor Agnieszka Legucka from the Polish Institute of International Affairs, in an interview with BiznesAlert.pl.
- „Carlson, famous for his pro-Kremlin statements, most probably decided that in view of the polarization and the coming election Putin’s ideas will land on fertile ground,” the professor explained.
- „Republicans hint that Joe Biden is waging his own war in Ukraine. In doing so, he is leading the United States towards a disaster, perhaps even a nuclear war. The Carlson-Putin duo reassured them in these views,” said the professor.
- „Carlson himself is not important, but his reach and audience in the United States are. Just within 12 hours the show had 20 million views,” the Professor pointed out.
- „Putin conveyed in this conversation only what he wanted people to hear,” the expert noted.
BiznesAlert.pl: For the first time since the beginning of the invasion of Ukraine Vladimir Putin gave an interview to a Western journalist. How important was this conversation?
Agnieszka Legucka: Many people downplay the importance of this event, but in my opinion, it has a very strong and negative impact, mainly for American audiences, among whom more and more people question the need to support Ukraine. Carlson, famous for his pro-Kremlin statements, most probably decided that in view of this hesitation and the coming election Putin’s ideas will land on fertile ground. This is very dangerous for us, the countries supporting Ukraine in this conflict. Putin used this interview to present the Russian version of history. Poles, Ukrainians and other Europeans mostly know its true course, American audiences may not. This is why they may believe Putin’s manipulations are actually true. Due to the large pre-election polarization in the US, these lies will spread easily. Ukraine and its allies will find it increasingly difficult to convince Americans to support Ukraine.
Was the 25-minute lecture on Putin’s „history” directed towards Americans?
Americans especially, and Republican voters specifically. They have more doubts than the Democrats about the legitimacy of supporting Ukraine. Republicans hint that Joe Biden is waging his own war in Ukraine. In doing so, he is leading the United States towards a disaster, perhaps even a nuclear war. The Carlson-Putin duo reassured them in these views.
The other audience for whom Putin’s lecture was aimed at were Russians, who were reassured that not everyone in the West is on the side of Ukraine. They hope that Russia will return to the international stage and that it will be able to dictate the terms of peace. Of course peace that is understood in a Russian way, which means Ukraine has to surrender and at least part of its territory needs to be annexed.
I believe that in Europe, the majority of people will have a negative view of this interview and the ideas expressed within it.
Why, after almost two years, did Putin agree to an interview with a Western journalist?
As for this interview, one could colloquially say that it was convenient for him. He exploited Carlson as a so-called useful idiot. This does not mean that he wanted to completely discredit this journalist, he just used him as an instrument. Thanks to this interview, he was able to get a message to the Americans. Carlson himself is not important, but his reach and audience in the United States are. Within 12 hours, the interview had 20 million views. Carlson’s views may have suggested to Putin that he would not ask difficult questions. In this regard, he was an ideal choice, which made it possible to show the Russian leader as an efficient, decisive politician. I would even say as a pushy, strong man who sets the tone for the conversation. During the interview, Carlson behaved like a student who is listetning to the wisdom of a master. The message of this interview will be to show the American audience the alleged manipulations of Joe Biden.
In terms of this conversation, Putin has only gained ground on all fronts.
The President of Russia took a few personal jabs at his interviewer. What was their purpose?
In my opinion, it was about showing Carlson was unprepared for the interview. Putin clearly got acquainted with his biography, which unsettled the journalist. The suggestions did not directly offend him, but the president, for example, directly said that a question was poorly worded and mentioned that Carlson had applied to the CIA. The tone of the conversation was clear – Putin held the higher ground in this discussion. The main recipient of this message was the Russian audience.
Do such propaganda interviews have any substantive value?
Absolutely not. This kind of interview is pure propaganda. You feel like you’ve heard it a million times already. Moreover, Russian propaganda is adamant at using its impact to the most. It assumes that a lie repeated a hundred times becomes the truth. Putin said only what he wanted people to hear.
Many commentators criticized this interview. Was it a mistake that only increased the views?
This is a difficult question to which I have no clear answer. On the one hand, one could adopt a strategy of not paying attention to it to not increase its reach. On the other hand, the lack of reaction means acceptance, as it were, recognition of Putin’s words as true. However, I think it is better to try to reverse this false narrative. This is difficult because most of us don’t have as effective channels as Carlson to reach the Republican audience.
In my opinion, Ukraine’s strategic communication has been excellent for two years. Now it’s starting to jam. There is no longer such a strong message: Ukraine bravely fighting against a great power, not giving up and fighting for values. The failed counteroffensive and criticism by the Ukrainian administration of their partners have rattled this picture. I do not know if it will be possible to rebuild it without success at the front. This situation made the ground more fertile for Carlson’s and Putin’s words.
Interview by Marcin Karwowski